MSSR clones??

[mamiyapis]

It seems the US is starting to realize what our AFP armorers realized before they did! The different branches of their armed forces have built sniper/DM rifles on their M16s/M4s... Although I can't say for sure, these look newer than the MSSR, which was concieved quite a while back... if I'm mistaken, please feel free to correct me. 

USMC's version, the SAM-R

US Army's version, the SDM-R

US Navy-SEALS version, the Mk.12 Mod X

American soldier: "Hey Juan, mine's better than yours!"
Pinoy solider: *grumbles* "...ginaya nyo lang sa amin yan e." 

[Adroth]

MBLT and Frank can elaborate on this better, but AFAIK, the MSSR used innovations that had already been used by other armed forces. The Israelis had already made similar rifles by the time the first generation MSSR came out.

Most of the parts of the prototype MSSR were sourced commercially. Once the concept had already been proven, the PN poured money into the project.

[mamiyapis]

paging sir MBLT and sir Frank. 

[gemini1]

I'm no rifle guru but I think our version is better in the range category, if you compare the barrel length;

PMC MSSR
For the PMC, barrel length remained the same at   26” with the DPMS Ultra Match Barrel, whose twist was standardized at 1 X 8” instead of the earlier 1 X 8.5” twist

US army SDM-R
the traditional 1:7 twist, 20-inch barrel has been replaced with a stainless steel Douglas 1:8 twist, 20-inch barrel, with 12 flutes cut into the barrel to reduce weight

USMC SAM-R
The barrel is a 20 in (508 mm) long 1:7.7 in (178 mm) service rifle match stainless steel Krieger SS barrel, manufacturered by Compass Lake. A standard A2 flash hider is used

USNavy mk 12 mod X
 A 18 in (457 mm) threaded-muzzle match-grade free floating stainless steel heavy barrel with a 1:7 in (178 mm) rifle twist ratio. The barrels have a special contour to maximize accuracy and minimize weight; they are manufactured by Douglas Barrels

http://www.navy.mil.ph/Dloads/PMC%20Sniper%20Program%20Update%20article.htm

Oh forgot to add. our MSSR was introduced in 1996

http://www.navy.mil.ph/digest.html

[Shingen]

Appropriate barrel length is closely tied to the caliber and the load or loads that will be employed.  If a shorter barrel provides equivalent or better accuracy and little or no loss in velocity, why go to a longer barrel?  Why sacrifice maneuverability and add excess weight?  While old attitudes may die hard, chronographs and ballistics don't lie.  Shorter barrels are often better.  The proof is in the performance.

[el_commandante]

Although I know nothing about sniper rifle.

short barrel or long barrel, only the philippine marines with experience in the field or those with experience shooting targets with two legs can attest which is more suitable for their use.

I agree with shingen, there are pros and cons with sniper rifle

[predator]

Can this MSSR penetrate V-150, or a tank? If not we must develop more sniper rifles which can penetrate tanks and most APC ... like the Barret.

Why?

if we cann't buy amoured vehicles(Tanks and APC) we must prepare to counter the enemy tanks and APCs. Thinking of external defence ..

OT ... Just like in fighter aircrafts, we don't have credible airforce so why don't we think and buy some defensive weapons with our budget ... for the airforce why not buy anti-aircraft guns ... eto lang kasi kaya natin eh .. wala tayo pambili ng Stinger or anti-aircraft missles .. pero kasi kung marami anti-aircraft guns okay na rin ...

[Shingen]

5.56mm cannot even penetrate most trees, let alone armoured vehicles. It's velocity, killing power over long range is questionable at best. 5.56mm rifles with sniper scopes are meant to supplement a rifle squad (sharpshooter in SAF context), and not meant to be the primary sniper weapon. Then again, if we are talking about ammunition with very high grain count....

[gemini1]

As mentioned in this site

http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_barrel.htm

It is worth mentioning that a longer barrel is not inherently more accurate than a short barrel. Intrinsic accuracy is a matter of quality, not length. However, a longer barrel is generally better in terms of practical accuracy because a longer and therefore heavier barrel (within reason) is easier to hold relatively steady from unsupported positions; thus it is easier to shoot a long barreled rifle accurately.
The length of the rifle barrel has a direct influence on the velocity obtained from the cartridge for which it is chambered. Ballistically, longer is usually better. But for carrying, handling, and maneuvering in close quarters (like thick brush) shorter is usually better. So some sort of compromise must be reached.

[gemini1]

5.56mm rifles with sniper scopes are meant to supplement a rifle squad (sharpshooter in SAF context), and not meant to be the primary sniper weapon.

[/color]

Actually its not. The Phil Marines doctrine has the following sniper rifle in use;
We have the MSSR as primary - The REMINGTON 700 as intermediate and M-95 as long range

http://pdff.sytes.net/index.php?showtopic=522&st=45

[Shingen]

Actually its not. The Phil Marines doctrine has the following sniper rifle in use;
We have the MSSR as primary - The REMINGTON 700 as intermediate and M-95 as long range

http://pdff.sytes.net/index.php?showtopic=522&st=45

 

Am surprised.

[Manokski]

Am surprised.

The MSSR was made the primary because engagement ranges were and are so short - well within the range of the MSSR.   There is also another advantage - the sound that the MSSR makes is the same as that made by the standard M16s in use by everyone else (opfor and friendlies).  The Marines found that over these short ranges, using the M-95 and Remington 700s (to a lesser degree) attracted so much counter fire that it could be counter productive to say the least.

[Shingen]

The MSSR was made the primary because engagement ranges were and are so short - well within the range of the MSSR.   There is also another advantage - the sound that the MSSR makes is the same as that made by the standard M16s in use by everyone else (opfor and friendlies).  The Marines found that over these short ranges, using the M-95 and Remington 700s (to a lesser degree) attracted so much counter fire that it could be counter productive to say the least.

What range are we talking about here?

P.S: Read somewhere that due to lack of suitable gunsmiths for the M-14(a much more suitable weapon), the M-16 was selected for modification instead.

[Manokski]

What range are we talking about here?

P.S: Read somewhere that due to lack of suitable gunsmiths for the M-14(a much more suitable weapon), the M-16 was selected for modification instead.

Lack of M14 gunsmiths was part of it but not the whole story.  Engagement ranges were.  Under 600 meters I am told with 150 meters being common.  Strangely enough, 150 meters is also the standard distance that Navy Patrol boats engage rebel boats....I am guessing that this is due to the fact that the navy and marines require positive ID before they can shoot. 

In the 2000 campaign, the M-95 and MSSR was widely used.  The M-95, with its distinctive sound attracted so much attention from the other side that it became counter productive.  Works fine in long distances though but not all the terrain in the south offers those vistas.

[Shingen]

Lack of M14 gunsmiths was part of it but not the whole story.  Engagement ranges were.  Under 600 meters I am told with 150 meters being common.  Strangely enough, 150 meters is also the standard distance that Navy Patrol boats engage rebel boats....I am guessing that this is due to the fact that the navy and marines require positive ID before they can shoot. 

In the 2000 campaign, the M-95 and MSSR was widely used.  The M-95, with its distinctive sound attracted so much attention from the other side that it became counter productive.  Works fine in long distances though but not all the terrain in the south offers those vistas.

600 meters you mentioned and with 150 meters being common, do you think a decent rifleman can't shoot straight at 150 meters with aid of a scope?

Could you also elaborate on the difference of sounds? On the pros and cons i mean.