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Author Topic: Short list for AFP R&D and consideration for the AFP bureaucracy  (Read 2069 times)
philippinestoday
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« on: June 05, 2006, 08:20:21 PM »

here are a couple of things that the AFP should be doing for their soldiers and as well being self reliant.  Cool

for the Soldiers:

- helmets and vest (locally made, in partnership with private companies and research establishments. Ballistics test can be done here or outside, must be composite material to make it light and at the same time strong, raw materials can be imported. )
- uniforms (locally made, must address the need for a uniform that will protect them from rain and keep them warm, and at the same time during hot summer days (35 degrees celcius) will be cool enough to wear. still in partnership with a research establishment and a local textile firm...)
- boots


standard rifle:

- much like the MSRP program of the marines, this rifle will replace all standard issued rifle for all the branch of the military.
- can be easily reconfigured to address the different needs of the services.
- reconfiguration components are also part of this program
- locally made, in partnership with either Floro or other local companies..can partner also with a foreign company (excluding the US)
- rifle must endure the type of environment we have.
- easily cleanable
- standard optics (forgot the name of that sight..yng mrn red dot lng sa center ng site..hehe)

communication:

- as in other threads, the AFP already procurred new communication equipments. But to encourage the local electronics and communications industry here in the country, the AFP should look into viable manufacturers for an indigenous communication equipment.
- more so, the project would also include the partnership with both research establishments and universities.
- equipment will have its own encryption/decryption algorithm not currently used locally and outside of the country.
- components used can be already manufactured here in the country.
- different types of comm. equipment might be developed. Unit or squad level comm. (ala special forces), battalion or division level comm. and the general HQ level..

SAT project

- to make most of these comm. levels a SAT based comm. transciever can be used. the SAT will be positioned in the geosynchronous orbit so that the SAT will stay above our heads.. aside from being a relay for comm. the SAT can also have a radar imaging and as well as radar capability itself.
- a different encryption/decryption algorithm will be used here.
- location of receiver stations should be addressed as well. command and control centers must not be located just near the capital. secondary command and control centers maybe located within current bases in the visayas and mindanao and in the northern luzon area.
- the SAT project can be made in cooperation with the russians or any other NATO country..even japan..for the neccessary technology to make the satellite and launch it in geosynchronous orbit.
- SAT project would address comm., radar, and imaging..

MSRP

- a probable introduction of these rifles to other sniper units of other services (excluding the PNP) may be done.

night vision:

- night vision optical sights maybe introduced to all AFP services, but re-training must be done first and foremost.
- locally made with partnership with both research establishments and a university maybe done. optical components maybe made local or imported.

- night vision goggles must be made standard to all special forces units, scout rangers, marine units, light infantry, and other specialized units of the AFP.
- innovation is the key here..

ARMOR:

- a R&D project can be made to address the need for a locally made AIFV (if viable). the current M113 gavins must be upgraded both its armor and its firepower. engine upgrade is also suitable.
- studying the assembly process of the SIMBA, the project will focus on how to address the upgrade needs and the assembly process to make the possible upgrading of an M113 into an AIFV.
- R&D would also focus on upgrades for the SIMBA, v-300, v-150, and scorpion light tank. (if possible)
- further development of the marine gun trucks and introduction of these gun truck innovation to the army.
- composite armor technology research and research on how to enhance current armor platings in place in all AFP wheeled or tracked armored vehicle.
- R&D for viability of a local made replacement for the humvee and trucks

AMMUNITION, GRENADES, and others:

- R&D to enhance and improve current production of munitions of the Government Arsenel.
- R&D for ballistics technology to improve performance of bullets and munitions already being manufactured by the GA and local munitions company.
- R&D for possible inclusion for the GA munitions productions shells and other munitions for artillery, anti- armor, AAA munitions and others used by the navy,airforce,army,and marines.
- R&D for enhancement of production process and possible cost reduction by improving efficiency of the facility.
- R&D for enhancement and improvement and possible manufacture of grenades, flash and smoke grenades, and plastic explosives. (if possible or if allowed by constitution)

PISTOL and CQB weapons:

- R&D for development of own 9mm submachine gun basing on experience on the upgrade and re-introduction of the silenced grease guns (M3?).
- R&D for enhancement and improvement of current Pistols (9mm and .45) being manufactured locally.
- standardization of the 9mm pistol for the PNP and all civilian law enforcement units(including PSG).
- both 9mm and .45 pistols available for use for the AFP depending on type of deployment.
- development of .45 submachine gun to be used by special forces units. (if possible) --> suppressed M3
- flash and noise suppresors enhancement and development. (for CQB and stealth deployment)

ENLISTMENT and TRAINING: (edited)

- prioritize re-training of all personnel
- availablity of courses for leadership, tactics, advance markmanship, logistics planning, human resource management, process management, moral and ethical subjects, advance engineering courses and surveying for the engineering corps, political science (constitution), financial management (for high ranked officers), information technology, electronics and communications course, advance mechanical and electronics subjects, environmental subjects, and other courses or subjects that the soldier might need both for survivability during deployment as well as increase of rank.
- training of the cyber warfare and information unit on network security, vulnerability, encryption/decryption technology, virus defense, IT subjects, ethics, and others
- enhancment of human resource management and re-evaluation of promotion process.

BASES and soldiers welfare:  (edited)

 possible use of solar and wind power for base electricity, to lessen cost of electricity.

SOLDIERS WELFARE:

- Housing program must not copy the design and planning being used by the NHA. The NHA program uses to much land per house. The AFP housing program must be implemented by its own engineering corps with the specifics that the housing project will utilize in building apartment type building, 2 or 3 storey apartment blocks can be built. So less land will be used and more soldiers and their family will be given PERMANENT housing units.
- said housing units cannot be sold or to be rented by others, if a soldier has built his own house, he can just inform the AFP, vacate the place, and a new soldiers family will live in that housing unit. But, in the case that he cannot afford to have his own house built, a loan program wherein zero interest and low monthly payments should be available.
- each soldier should be given health insurance both for him and his immediate family. discounts to medications should be available for them.
- free education for pre-school, primary, and secondary education should be available for his family, and a tuition discount or free tuition to a government university of his choice.


yn lng muna..sakit n ulo ko... afro


« Last Edit: July 04, 2006, 09:41:03 PM by philippinestoday » Logged

WarHummer
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« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2006, 09:41:29 PM »

Puwede ba sa atin ito???

http://www.yachtingbrokers.com/defence_ship.html
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philippinestoday
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« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2006, 10:15:43 PM »

i think pwde..the marines and navy can jointly used it in the south for their operations against the abu sayaf and milf..
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sandstig
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« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2006, 03:12:32 AM »

Gah, please don't refer to the M-113 as the Gavin. With regards stopping enlistment, you can't do that since you have to make up for losses when people retire or are lost in action. If I'm not mistaken, many units in both the Marines and the Army are also understrength from their prescribed TO&Es. Otherwise, I agree that self-sufficiency would be ideal, but much of that depends on consistency and looking at things long-term. Many of these ideas cannot bear fruit without also investing more strongly in other sectors such as education and welfare in order to keep people with these skills in the country.
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kenshin
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Fck it


« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2006, 05:22:37 AM »

i think pwde..the marines and navy can jointly used it in the south for their operations against the abu sayaf and milf..

you need to rephrase that. The marines are a part of the Navy.
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Noypi in Kiwiland
philippinestoday
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« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2006, 07:11:18 AM »

you need to rephrase that. The marines are a part of the Navy.

hehe..my mistake..

Gah, please don't refer to the M-113 as the Gavin.

i'm kinda nalilito...visit these site:
http://www.geocities.com/gavinpetition/
http://www.combatreform.com/m113combat.htm
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m113.htm
http://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/detail.asp?armor_id=6

another site that has upgrade options for the m113:
http://www.uniteddefense.com/www.m113.com/index.html
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fallschirmjager
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« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2006, 07:26:59 AM »

Philippinestoday,

Amen  Smile
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Wir fürchten den Feind nicht und auch nicht den Tod
sandstig
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« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2006, 07:35:07 AM »

It's informally known as the "Gavin" by Mike Sparks and anyone who's visited his websites. He started calling it that when he began his campaign to discredit the U.S. Army's Stryker program. He had initially lied in his articles and stated that "Gavin" was what the troops serving with them called them, but that fallacy got outed on places such as Tank-net. This later led to his petition to give the M-113  the name "Gavin".
« Last Edit: June 06, 2006, 07:37:10 AM by sandstig » Logged

Adroth
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« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2006, 08:50:13 AM »

here are a couple of things that the AFP should be doing for their soldiers and as well being self reliant.  Cool

Agree in principle. This, however, is easier said than done. This actually requires the ability to produce goods for the civilian market first. The AFP budget is not sufficient to support an industrial-military complex that solely caters to its needs.

The AFP must be able to get these local goods off-the-shelf.

Quote
for the Soldiers:

- helmets and vest (locally made, in partnership with private companies and research establishments. Ballistics test can be done here or outside, must be composite material to make it light and at the same time strong, raw materials can be imported. )

We had a chance when petrochemical plants were being set up in Bataan -- we were starting our own plastics industry. The problem, as explained by a former industry insider, was that absence of naptha cracker plant. As a result, these plants had to close up shop one at a time because it was uneconomical.

One can only hope that we actually get a second chance.

Quote
standard rifle:

- much like the MSRP program of the marines, this rifle will replace all standard issued rifle for all the branch of the military.

The MSRP is essentially an M-16 with a few key components replaced. It uses a special barrel that is actually imported -- it is not manufactured locally.

Armscorp reportedly now uses computer-aid manufacturing (CAM) techniques for making barrels for its guns, so the technology exists in-country.

Quote
standard optics (forgot the name of that sight..yng mrn red dot lng sa center ng site..hehe)

The Malaysians have reportedly been having problems with guns that have built in optics. This is reportedly one of the many issues they have with the Steyr Aug -- which they are reportedly abandoning in favor of the M-4

http://timawa.net/forum/index.php?topic=3983.0

Quote
AMMUNITION, GRENADES, and others:

- R&D to enhance and improve current production of munitions of the Government Arsenel.

Totally agree.  Very Happy

The PMC snipers reportedly have to use imported match-grade ammunition because the GA ammo is of sufficient quality for sniper work.

Quote
- development of .45 submachine gun to be used by special forces units. (if possible)

Why complicate logistics with so many calibers?

Quote
- flash and noise suppresors enhancement and development. (for CQB and stealth deployment)

This is already being done.

Quote
ENLISTMENT and TRAINING:

- stop further enlistment

What is the logic behind this?

Quote
- enhancment of human resource management and re-evaluation of promotion process.

What sort of re-evaluation did you have in mind?

Quote
BASES and soldiers welfare:

- base soldiers quarters must be standardized regardless if they belong to a special forces unit or an infantry unit.

This is an interesting suggestion. How are they currently different?

Quote
- possible use of solar and wind power for base electricity, to lessen cost of electricity.

I like this one  Very Happy

Quote
The AFP housing program must be implemented by its own engineering corps

This is currently being done: http://timawa.net/forum/index.php?topic=3845.0

Quote
. . . the housing project will utilize in building apartment type building, 2 or 3 storey apartment blocks can be built. So less land will be used and more soldiers and their family will be given PERMANENT housing units.
- said housing units cannot be sold or to be rented by others, if a soldier has built his own house, he can just inform the AFP, vacate the place, and a new soldiers family will live in that housing unit. But, in the case that he cannot afford to have his own house built, a loan program wherein zero interest and low monthly payments should be available.

This makes perfect sense. This way, a soldier can never be without a home.

The Taiwanese employed a similar method when they came up with their mass housing project for their troops. If you see grey 3-storey apartment structures in downtown Taipei, chances are these are soldier's apartments.

Quote
- each soldier should be given health insurance both for him and his immediate family. discounts to medications should be available for them.

This is currently being done.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2006, 08:57:09 AM by Adroth » Logged

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philippinestoday
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« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2006, 09:37:14 AM »

Quote
Why complicate logistics with so many calibers?

9mm has stopping power but the .45 has the killing power, both can be used in different types of missions.
but to lessen complications in logistics, a 9mm submachinegun for CQB maybe standardize..

Quote
ENLISTMENT and TRAINING:

- stop further enlistment

What is the logic behind this?

to prioritize re-training of current personnels.

Quote
Quote
BASES and soldiers welfare:

- base soldiers quarters must be standardized regardless if they belong to a special forces unit or an infantry unit.

This is an interesting suggestion. How are they currently different?

well..i have visited only one base, i think it was the 54th engineering base, here in san gabriel,davao city.. and from frolicking around their base (which was open due to an IT gathering hosted by UP of mindanao) from afar you might notice classroom type buildings, but getting nearer to the building it was actually troop quarters and some buildings are mess hall, office, storage, and others. and all buildings look like they are elementary school buildings.

in making sense to what im pondering is that the soldiers are housed in a cramp building which was not designed  to be a troop quarters or a munitions storage or a mess hall and other things.. the buildings did not address the needs of the soldiers or the battalion as a whole.

design and build structures that will address specific or general needs and use.
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sandstig
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« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2006, 10:39:06 AM »

to prioritize re-training of current personnels.

It still doesn't make sense to completely stop enlistment for all the services just because you want to retrain the troops you already have. A more realistic alternative would be to follow the lead of the Philippine Marine Corps and rotate units (individual battalions) back to base for six-month periods to refit and retrain.
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Barber 6
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« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2006, 11:01:44 AM »

9mm has stopping power but the .45 has the killing power, both can be used in different types of missions.
but to lessen complications in logistics, a 9mm submachinegun for CQB maybe standardize..

err...the .45 has more stopping power. If you notice some Armed Forces and Police from different Countries are turning their backs from the 9mm...that is why some adopted the 10mm and the .40 for the simple reason that the 9mm round is very small and does not have the stopping power needed. I read somewhere that the basic sidearm of the Americans is back to the .45 which was gladly accepted by the troops.

Why not standardize ammo that can perform multiple missions...with this we can limit the paper work and probably ease up the procurement process.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2006, 11:15:07 AM by Barber 6 » Logged
Adroth
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« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2006, 01:31:50 PM »

9mm has stopping power but the .45 has the killing power, both can be used in different types of missions.
but to lessen complications in logistics, a 9mm submachinegun for CQB maybe standardize..

This was actually a rhetorical question.

We need to stick with a single calibre so as not to unnecessarily complcate the logistics chain. We ought to stick to one, and that's it.

We need an efficient AFP to make the most of what little money it gets.

At any rate, this was a nice list.  Cool

Quote
to prioritize re-training of current personnels.

Why should training and recruitment be mutually exclusive?

If we do not recruit, how do we make up for combat losses?

I'm definitely with Sandstig on this one.

Quote
well..i have visited only one base, i think it was the 54th engineering base, here in san gabriel,davao city.. and from frolicking around their base (which was open due to an IT gathering hosted by UP of mindanao) from afar you might notice classroom type buildings, but getting nearer to the building it was actually troop quarters and some buildings are mess hall, office, storage, and others. and all buildings look like they are elementary school buildings.

in making sense to what im pondering is that the soldiers are housed in a cramp building which was not designed  to be a troop quarters or a munitions storage or a mess hall and other things.. the buildings did not address the needs of the soldiers or the battalion as a whole.

design and build structures that will address specific or general needs and use.


How then do you tie this with this statement:

- base soldiers quarters must be standardized regardless if they belong to a special forces unit or an infantry unit.

I've been to San Gabriel myself (am also from Davao) -- we even stayed in those barracks during training.  Back then, there was even a Special Forces barracks. Theirs was the same as everyone else's.

A roof over one's head is a roof over one's head. When soldiers are out in the field -- they don't have these amenities.

In your opinion, what needs are not being met?

« Last Edit: June 06, 2006, 01:45:30 PM by Adroth » Logged

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philippinestoday
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« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2006, 07:31:07 PM »

Quote
Provocations

The main provocations were military grievances; discovery of the plot leading them to implement Plan Charlie (and not Plans Alpha and Bravo); dinner of PMA ’94 and ’95 members with President Arroyo on 23 July 2003; and the President’s order of arrest for officers and men unaccounted for on 26 July 2003.

But it is not to say that the soldiers don’t have valid grievances. Among which are the

a) RSBS issue;

b) procurement system prone to “corrupt” practices such as “conversion”, “washing”, split POs, rigged biddings, “ghost” deliveries, etc., especially by and with the collusion of the powerful “comptroller family”, also affecting POL;

c) sale or transfer of arms and ammo to unauthorized recipients;

d) modernization of the AFP and the Modernization Fund;

e) inadequate AFP grievance mechanism (IG and OESPA) due to hierarchy, seniority, military culture including obedience to superiors, etc.;

f) inadequate health, medical, housing, and other services;

g) poor state of military equipage; and

h) delays in payments of benefits to survivors of military personnel killed in action.

full article: http://www.tag.org.ph/execWatch/felicianoReport_oakwood.htm

these and other issues are the reasons for having this short list. but i ill stress that this is from my point of view, a civilian's point of view, i hear and see news report way back about conditions of troops inside there bases and also during deployment (this was before,i don't watch local news today..too much propaganda)

for the troop quarters issue:
comfort (too naive)..but even though they are soldiers, a comfortable bunk would mean good sleep..
bathroom/CR..if memory serves me right, there where only a couple at that base..an additional would be good, less time to wait for a soldiers turn to do his duties.

for the recruitment issue:
i was just pondering if the recruitment and training methods being used by companies can be used;
some companies has these method that before recruiting another (lets say) survey engineer, the company looks for a viable candidate within its current personnels, looking for a candidate with enough skills and enough knowledge to be trained in surveying. in the employers point of view, it would cost them much if they recruit a new guy than to enhance the capability of a curren employee..

thanks adroth for the post..some of my statements in the list are filled with "maybe, if possible" a question..
tga davao sd diay ka...mrn pla SF nka station s san gabriel noon...Hmmnn... funny.. during my visit only a couple buildings where there..bka kinuha na ng UP ang lot..
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Adroth
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« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2006, 07:57:34 PM »

tga davao sd diay ka...mrn pla SF nka station s san gabriel noon...Hmmnn... funny.. during my visit only a couple buildings where there..bka kinuha na ng UP ang lot..


The SF barracks was there back in '89, and it was in the RCDU compound, not the one for the Engineering Brigade. Its been a loooong time since I went there.

Hmm . . . UP is there now eh?
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