What didn't you like about ROTC and what do you think should be done about it?

[ian]

In an effort to reform the ROTC, I would like to hear from other people what they didn't like about their ROTC experience, what they think should be done about it, and what should be added to the program in order to produce better graduates with a holistic learning experience.

I hope to get a lot of good insight! Thanks!

P.S.

I would like to add that this thread shouldn't be used to whine about the program, but instead point out mistakes and suggest alternatives in a constructive criticism type of manner to better improve the program.

[Adroth]

Kudo's Ian. May there be more officers like you.

Comments about the quality of commandants and assistant military instructors are beyond your control, so I shall leave those observations out. I'm listing some of the ROTC/CMT problems that come to mind (there may be more later), and I'm dividing them into the following categories:

- Conduct of training
- Officer behavior

Conduct of training

- Instructors were not properly briefed regarding training techniques, and were not made to rehearse their lectures as prescribed in MOI guidelines. All officers ought to go through a trainors clinic. Barking at people, drills and ceremonies-style, is not conducive to establishing a productive classroom environment

(Note, this method helps officers who are not natural teachers. There were brilliant officer-trainers during my time, even with the absence of this system, but having a safety-net like this will improve overall quality)

- Junior officers were not given critique regarding their small-unit command abilities. Drill performance was the only metric. Part of the reason for the existence of a-hole senior officers is because their proclivities were not not corrected during their junior years

- Cadets were not informed of their training topics before the training. As a result, training discussions were always one-sided: from the trainor to the cadets. There was no discussion.

- Excessive emphasis on drills, at the expense of more practical subjects (e.g., CTIS, squad & platoon tactics, etc.)

- Too much training was oriented towards passing the tactical inspection. This meant that there was an emphasis on shortcuts instead of the correct way of doing things (e.g., disassembly methods for firearms, etc.)

- Marksmanship training was a joke. Every cadet, especially the officers, should know the cardinal rules of safe gun handling (e.g., all guns are always considered loaded, etc.)

- Physical fitness training was not implemented in an organized manner. Trainees ought to be slowly brought up to a Corps standard -- which advance officers themselves should be able to demonstrate that they can do.

Officer behavior

- Too many officers were mindful of the concept "rank has its privileges", but too few understood that "rank has its obligations"

- Too many officers failed to understand the context of "Para 1, the officer is always right; Para 2 if the officer is wrong, see Para 1". This is not justification for being an idiot, but is instead a challenge to be perfect.

- Officers within the same batch do not salute each other, regardless of rank disparity. Things were even worse with officers in different units (dang it man, we're all in the same army)

- Pet peeve: I have yet to meet an officer (even amongst my comrades) who could pronounce the word "cadence" correctly

- Not all officers were standard first-aid certified. Given the strategic location of ROTC offices, the ROTC office is the ideal first aid station

[ian]

Yes, MOI is a very important subject! Instructors must be flexible and should be able to adjust their teaching techniques as the situation requires it. The only problem is that, we don't even have decent manuals on these subjects. 

Regarding the performance of junior officers, I think this primarily should be the responsibility of 2nd class cadets such as the company commanders and then must be reinforced by 1st class cadets.

Cadets must be given a prospectus/syllabus just like other courses, so that they can study and prepare prior to the formal instruction.

I think the main reason why drills are overly emphasized is that either there are no qualified instructors to teach other subjects, or there are no instruction manuals available for those subjects.

IMO the tactical inspection should only be a culmination of all the knowledges learned by the cadets for the school year. If the POI is properly implemented, then there should be no 'tactical inspection crash course'.

Marksmanship should always be preceded by firearm safety. If this is the case in actual combat, soldiers would get shot before they even have an actual encounter.

I also agree that physical fitness training is a joke. The only time regular cadets get PT is when they come in late. There should be a regular schedule for PTs and there should be periodical physical exams to determine if there is an improvement in the physical fitness level of the cadets, especially advance cadet officers.

With regards to officer behavior, I totally agree that many cadet officers especially in the advanced classes think that the higher their class is, the less is their responsibility. They pass most, if not all of their duties to juniors but they take the credit.

Salutes must always be rendered, regardless of class and rank. It is a sign of respect, so if one respects his batch/class mate, then one should render salute. Also, when a junior salutes to a senior, the latter should always return the salute, not just nodding or whatnot.

Hehehe. Yep, cadence is most often heard as kadins rather than keyd(u)ns.

Basic first aid training is also a must for all cadet officers. Learning CPR is the bare minimum.

Thanks for your insights Adroth! I'd like to hear from the other guys here about their opinions!

[davaofrancis]

I suggest to have the following subjects:

1.   A History about Modern Military Conflicts and the Conduct of each respective strategies and campaigns(WWI, WWII, Israeli-Arabs, Korean, Vietnam, Kuwait, Afghanistan, Iraq)

If you thouroughly read about the evolution of modern warfare, you will instill in the minds of the cadets what is the use of small/large unit organizations, war of attrition and maneuver, purpose of reservists and  mobilization time tables,  famous war personalities and their contributed strategies.

2.  Lectures why we have a stagnant AFP.  Its all about our two-season climate and lack of address to external threats.

Just look at our response to the Chinese structures in Spratly Islands.  And, why the 4-season countries have the best equipped armed forces?

3.  Have the latest self resetting targets at military ranges.   I bet that our AFP rarely shoot above 100 mtrs during practices. Very tiring to verify targets.

4.  Lectures about the History of the Assault Rifle. 

You will then learn to love it.

It started when WWII German Gun Engineers formulated that we rarely see the enemy troops beyond 300 meters in the modern battlefield.  Observing advantages of selective-fire weapons to pin down the enemy with automatic fire.  These are the reasons why the "Sturmgewehr 44" (Assault Rifle 44) was born.  Adolf Hitler gave its name after recieving good feedback amongst its field commanders during the Russian Campaign.  Mikhail Kalashnikov designed his AK-47 from the advantages of the Sturmgewehr 44 to the WWII German Rifle Squads.

5.  Tap the youths present familiarity with battle rifles, assault rifles and submachine guns. 

You'll be surprised how they are well versed today with the popularity of Airsoft Electric Guns (AEG).

6.  Combine the actual marksmanship training (position, breathing, & trigger control) with the "force on force" maneuvers of Airsoft (running and firing from cover).

 :smiley:

[Adroth]

6.  Combine the actual marksmanship training (position, breathing, & trigger control) with the "force on force" maneuvers of Airsoft (running and firing from cover).

A while back, someone suggested using airsoft / paintball for CTIS in ROTC. ARESCOM really ought to look into this.

[suntzu]

What i didnt like about my ROTC experience

1. The mindless marching
2. The stupid parade drills
3. Not once during those two years were we able to hold a real rifle
4. Not knowing what the fookin ROTC was for
5. The stupid cadet officer

[opus]

If ROTC was much more intellectually stimulating more students would probably like it.  Maybe if they broke it up into different tracks, like make one track for the blood-and-guts types with lots of yelling and running around (airsoft?), a marching track with drills and parades (who would like that? cadet officers?), and a cerebral track with history, strategy and simulations.

Unfortunately at our school no effort was made to make it the even the least bit interesting.  Sure, war is not supposed to be pleasant, but because no one cared for ROTC, most of the people I know skipped it and just paid to pass, or grumbled, cursed and sweated it out and felt like they wasted their time.  Can the AFP count on them in time of war? Probably not.

Our school's program was the model of what ROTC was not supposed to be, and mandatory CMT actually ended because of a widely publicized incident there.

[anakngmesskit]

Responsibility to sell softdrinks or hire buses to shutlle us from the university grounds to fort bonifacio with overpriced bus fare, under the supervision of privileged lousy , dumb money making ROTC officers and disgrace to the uniform commandants,,..4,000 pesos for the release of ms 11 12 21 22, class cards, No Way!!! I repeat my ROTC at a Army ID Camp , 1 month straight , MS 11 12 21     22. Fed 3 square meals, indoctrinated properly on the Realities of how our govt. Really works, trained on Basic handling of Rifles,crew served weaponry, maneuvers. We were trained by REAL SoldieRs ,field grade, battle scarred Officers,NCO's.
Not some scheming, money making university based clowns. Eager to wear a uniform for the sake of Japorms.

[sentinel]

ehh... all of the best things i can think of makes loud noises and requires lots of funds...  

anyways, like many in my generation all we did is marched and did parade maneouvers throughout MS 11 through 12.... i think it would have better served our young minds back then if those times were just spent in classrooms instead. to me it didnt felt like MS 11 and 12 has a syllabus to follow so lets start with that.... lets make one. I made mine pretty basic so....

Weekend 1: Lets put in Philippine Military History--lets get to know some more of our heroes and events. So that young Filipinos/nas can latch on and find a model to pattern their lives with.      

Weekend 2: a littlebit about the Science of Warfare... kinds of biological, chemical and nuclear weapons its effects, how to survive it...etc..etc..

Weekend 3: Life saving techniques: CPR, wound care, basic herbal medications found in the jungles....

weekend 4: Introduction to weaponry in the PA, PN, PMC and PAF....

and so on and so forth..... something to this effect.

[ka nognog]

if the objective of ROTC is to develop a pool of people trained to be soldiers when needed, here is my take:

1. Minimize time spent on close order drills and ceremonies. IMO, it's enough that ROTC cadets know how to move from one place to another in an orderly manner, form-up for accounting and inspection, and salute properly. Not really so particular if they can't do Pass-in Review properly as long as they can execute Immediate Action Drills and Movement Techniques properly. Except for cadet officers who love to strut their stuffs on parades, who enjoy anyway spending/wasting time standing at parade formation under the sun for hours? Accounting can be completed in 5 min maximum, i wonder why it took us so many hours before during my CMT days.

2. If it is still being done, remove Presentation of Sponsors from the program of activities. I can't see the relevance of this activity and besides, feminists will consider it degrading to women. Spend the time instead in military subjects.

3. Build-up  basic skills needed by a soldier - See (patrolling technique, OP operation, etc), Move (map reading, movement formations and techniques, PT, foot marches, etc.), Shoot (weapons skills and small unit tactics), Communicate (signal comm including drafting of radio messages, basic hand signals)

4. Carefully select cadet officers with the right attitude (not those whose main skill is in uttering profanity in poor english language and shouting at underlings as well as thinking of money-making schemes) and build-up their leadership skills and correct attitude.

5. Encourage competition between sub-units to build-up esprit d'corps and improve standards (again, not competition on best marching unit please)

6. Culminating activity should not be a parade and review ceremony type but something like an FTX.

7. Carefully select lecturers for military subjects. Invitation to regular units for a lecturer are usually appreciated by the regulars since it will allow them to inter-act with other people.

8. Some here suggested lectures on military history. This will help develop sense of nationalism and patriotism. i know since i was "brainwashed" by a highly skilled teacher in Philippine History once.

9. Concentrate development of skills that are supposedly inherent for the ROTC unit. Engineer unit should emphasize on engineer skills, artillery units on artillery skills, medics on medical care... and so on... This will distinguish the unit from the rest of the other ROTC units out there.

10. Cadet officers and training staff to set good example - at all times.

these are based on lessons learned during my MS11-22 days, time wasted in that quadrangle in Intramuros long time ago

[virago]

if the objective of ROTC is to develop a pool of people trained to be soldiers when needed, here is my take:

1. Minimize time spent on close order drills and ceremonies. IMO, it's enough that ROTC cadets know how to move from one place to another in an orderly manner, form-up for accounting and inspection, and salute properly. Not really so particular if they can't do Pass-in Review properly as long as they can execute Immediate Action Drills and Movement Techniques properly. Except for cadet officers who love to strut their stuffs on parades, who enjoy anyway spending/wasting time standing at parade formation under the sun for hours? Accounting can be completed in 5 min maximum, i wonder why it took us so many hours before during my CMT days.

2. If it is still being done, remove Presentation of Sponsors from the program of activities. I can't see the relevance of this activity and besides, feminists will consider it degrading to women. Spend the time instead in military subjects.

I second the motion sir!  Specially on the presentation of sponsors.  Presently in our school we don't have that anymore plus it cost a lot. 

[ka nognog]

I second the motion sir!  Specially on the presentation of sponsors.  Presently in our school we don't have that anymore plus it cost a lot. 

no worries from me about your unit LT V. i hope others would follow the same route too (yes, including my former school in intramuros!)

and i hope the right people at ARESCOM are reading this thread and consider this as a form of feedback mechanism in what they are doing (or need to be doing)...

[firstknight]

these are based on lessons learned during my MS11-22 days, time wasted in that quadrangle in Intramuros long time ago

ka nog - are u a knight?

[ka nognog]

ka nog - are u a knight?

err... a redbird, sir. but i did not graduate there - just spent some years. i found CMT there to be a total waste of time that i decided to seek what i want somewhere else (para hindi OT  ) ...i did not pay the going price then (2k?) per sem para hindi na mag-attend ng CMT yet, may grade pa din (papagalitan ako ng tatay ko, hehe). i just made sure that i availed the maximum allowable absences per sem.

[firstknight]

viva cards!

i'm 100% in agreement with observation although the P2K is not that rampant in our courtyard... medyo maliit din kasi ang community namin so when somebody start collecting such fee, madaling kakalat ang balita.

i also agree with your recomm below especially on the lectures... sure that will make ROTC/CMT more relevant instead of the endless marches.