90's Simba Deal Blocked?

[Pauper]

Excerpts from Manila Bulletin November 10, 1990 issue
"AFP Initiating Its Own Self-Defense Program-but the US is blocking its efforts to buy arms from other sources"
by Patria Amor

MANILA-The Philippines has initiated moves to diversify its sources of arms and weapons but the US has recently been stopping its efforts to buy arms from other sources.

This became clear after the US had tried to block a concluded deal between the AFP and British arms maker to supply the Philippine Army with 150 Simba APC's. In a letter dated October 6, 1989, Major General T.H. harvey Jr., then in-chief of JUSMAG stationed here wrote AFP Chief of Staff Renato De Villa asking him to stop the deal between the AFP and Guest,Keen and Nettleford (GKN) of Telford, England.

Harvey urged De Villa to stop the sale saying the British made APC's have "critical deficiencies" and that he tried to persuade then Army chief, Major General Manuel Cacanando to look for other sources of APC's.

Harvey's letter created a diplomatic row prompting British Ambassador to the Philippines Keith MacInnes to make a protest to his US counterpart, Nicholas Platt. Although the diplomatic protest wasn't publicized, sources in the British Embassy here confirmed a meeting between MacInnes and Platt about the matter.

In his letter to De Villa, Harvey said:
"Please consider this a private note as it relates to AFP purchase of the Simba. I am attempted [sic] to convince General Cacanando that there might be a better course. His idea to build trucks, while concurrently improving mobility is splendid."

"I will not go into all the details of why i believe the enterprise is frought with serious pitfalls, but suffice it to say that the Simba vehicle, never built for production, has critical deficiencies that render it inutile for your armed forces."

Harvey was later recalled to the US. No explanation was given to his recall, although there were speculations that it had something to do with his letter to De Villa.

The Defense establishment, reacting to criticisms of overdependence on the US, has been pursuing a self-reliance defense program to minimize overdependence on Washington and developed its own capability to meet its defense requirements.

Washington has been critical of these initiatives, viewing them as part of the reported graft and corruption in the military establishment. In its view, getting weapons from sources other than the US shows a hidden agenda to amass wealth from these deals.

Indeed, the US has openly and covertly advised Manila to continue getting arms from its industrial-military complex, using the Foreign Military sales Credits (FMSC) under the amended Military Bases Agreement.

The AFP has been getting 150 Simba APC's at a total price of $300.6 million to replace its ageing US built V150 APC's. The US has been blocking this deal, pushing instead Cadillac Gage, the American maker of V150's.

Cadillac Gage has come out with a "Midnight Offer" of $ 321 million. The deal however stipulates the use of $ 51.2 million as the fee for using FMSC. GKN has asked for $ 38.3 million as a fee for technology transfer, including providing Filipino engineers with tooling, engineering support and technology kits or packages.

Graham Jobson, GKN's chief representative says (Philippine) Army-GKN deal contains several provisions including countertrade arrangements that could lead to technology transfer. GKN also makes Warrior and Saxon (armoured vehicles). Jobson says GKN plans to make the Philippines the center to export APC's and other tanks to other countries including Malaysia and Pakistan.

[Adroth]

Graham Jobson, GKN's chief representative says (Philippine) Army-GKN deal contains several provisions including countertrade arrangements that could lead to technology transfer. GKN also makes Warrior and Saxon (armoured vehicles). Jobson says GKN plans to make the Philippines the center to export APC's and other tanks to other countries including Malaysia and Pakistan.

10 years later . . . still nothing.

[Anonymous]

Graham Jobson, GKN's chief representative says (Philippine) Army-GKN deal contains several provisions including countertrade arrangements that could lead to technology transfer. GKN also makes Warrior and Saxon (armoured vehicles). Jobson says GKN plans to make the Philippines the center to export APC's and other tanks to other countries including Malaysia and Pakistan.

10 years later . . . still nothing.

Somehow, people in government missed the main point of the deal and wasted a good opportunity.  The Simba may have its faults but with technology transfer, it was up to us to take it further.

 

[Pauper]

what about our local technicians/engineers involved in the Simba assembly? were they also involved in developing the Kalakian APC prototype?

[Anonymous]

what about our local technicians/engineers involved in the Simba assembly? were they also involved in developing the Kalakian APC prototype?

No.  It's a private company that makes bank armored cars.  The company in Subic that assembled the Simba closed down already i think.  Any maintenance or upgrade will have to be bidded out.

[Pauper]

where could they be now? too bad if they found jobs abroad and have brought with them their technical expertise (possibly including some advanced welding techniques for AFV's).

[frank]

Nice topic folks.

This if the first time I saw the article in about the letter from the JUSMAG about the UK sale.

In the 90s shortly after the Coup JUSMAG was able to find some residual funding that could have bought 80 vehicles from the US.
However half of this was utilized for something else so the proposal went ahead for 48 V300s for the Philippine Marines. 

Then came a request by the PAF,  and agreed to by the Marines to reduce the number further because they needed engine parts to keep the planes flying.

The Marine ordered 24 and recieved 24 V300s.  (12 APCs and 12 FSV 90mm gun.)

FVR was president then?

I wonder if the situation was similar in the 80s with Marcos leveraging, when we got the UK CRV family (Scorpion, Scimitar, etc).  Did a similar situation happen then.  And then we recieved many US V150S starting in 83.

[Adroth]

Had to split this off from the Timeline for indigenous vehicles

Last time I checked, the V-150 was not an indigenous vehicle. 

[frank]

Nice topic folks.

This if the first time I saw the article in about the letter from the JUSMAG about the UK sale.

Excerpts from Manila Bulletin November 10, 1990 issue
"AFP Initiating Its Own Self-Defense Program-but the US is blocking its efforts to buy arms from other sources"
by Patria Amor

MANILA-The Philippines has initiated moves to diversify its sources of arms and weapons but the US has recently been stopping its efforts to buy arms from other sources.

This became clear after the US had tried to block a concluded deal between the AFP and British arms maker to supply the Philippine Army with 150 Simba APC's. In a letter dated October 6, 1989, Major General T.H. harvey Jr., then in-chief of JUSMAG stationed here wrote AFP Chief of Staff Renato De Villa asking him to stop the deal between the AFP and Guest,Keen and Nettleford (GKN) of Telford, England.

Harvey urged De Villa to stop the sale saying the British made APC's have "critical deficiencies" and that he tried to persuade then Army chief, Major General Manuel Cacanando to look for other sources of APC's.

Harvey's letter created a diplomatic row prompting British Ambassador to the Philippines Keith MacInnes to make a protest to his US counterpart, Nicholas Platt. Although the diplomatic protest wasn't publicized, sources in the British Embassy here confirmed a meeting between MacInnes and Platt about the matter.

In his letter to De Villa, Harvey said:
"Please consider this a private note as it relates to AFP purchase of the Simba. I am attempted [sic] to convince General Cacanando that there might be a better course. His idea to build trucks, while concurrently improving mobility is splendid."

"I will not go into all the details of why i believe the enterprise is frought with serious pitfalls, but suffice it to say that the Simba vehicle, never built for production, has critical deficiencies that render it inutile for your armed forces."

Harvey was later recalled to the US. No explanation was given to his recall, although there were speculations that it had something to do with his letter to De Villa.

The Defense establishment, reacting to criticisms of overdependence on the US, has been pursuing a self-reliance defense program to minimize overdependence on Washington and developed its own capability to meet its defense requirements.

Washington has been critical of these initiatives, viewing them as part of the reported graft and corruption in the military establishment. In its view, getting weapons from sources other than the US shows a hidden agenda to amass wealth from these deals.

Indeed, the US has openly and covertly advised Manila to continue getting arms from its industrial-military complex, using the Foreign Military sales Credits (FMSC) under the amended Military Bases Agreement.

The AFP has been getting 150 Simba APC's at a total price of $300.6 million to replace its ageing US built V150 APC's. The US has been blocking this deal, pushing instead Cadillac Gage, the American maker of V150's.

Cadillac Gage has come out with a "Midnight Offer" of $ 321 million. The deal however stipulates the use of $ 51.2 million as the fee for using FMSC. GKN has asked for $ 38.3 million as a fee for technology transfer, including providing Filipino engineers with tooling, engineering support and technology kits or packages.

Graham Jobson, GKN's chief representative says (Philippine) Army-GKN deal contains several provisions including countertrade arrangements that could lead to technology transfer. GKN also makes Warrior and Saxon (armoured vehicles). Jobson says GKN plans to make the Philippines the center to export APC's and other tanks to other countries including Malaysia and Pakistan.

[hughdotoh]

MANILA-The Philippines has initiated moves to diversify its sources of arms and weapons but the US has recently been stopping its efforts to buy arms from other sources.

"I will not go into all the details of why i believe the enterprise is frought with serious pitfalls, but suffice it to say that the Simba vehicle, never built for production, has critical deficiencies that render it inutile for your armed forces."

Graham Jobson, GKN's chief representative says (Philippine) Army-GKN deal contains several provisions including countertrade arrangements that could lead to technology transfer. GKN also makes Warrior and Saxon (armoured vehicles). Jobson says GKN plans to make the Philippines the center to export APC's and other tanks to other countries including Malaysia and Pakistan.

The man was critical of the Simba and GKN bailed out of the deal anyway. So we are stuck with being the only country operating the Simba, which we maintain only through best efforts but are unable to produce in quantity.

Wonder if we were better off going for the Saxon instead- series produced, proven reliability in Europe and Asia, and something the Yanks would respect, albeit with the usual Gran Torino grumbling.