This is what I want PA to have or to copy

[anak ni sarge]

This type of all-terrain vehicle is very common in rural America. You see them especially in places where there are vast tracts of land devoted to agriculture. Top down, they look awesome. Once, when I was caught in a blizzard in Colorado, I was worried I couldn't get home but a farmer/used car dealer who personally owned of these drove me from La Junta to Pueblo, CO over roads covered in feet of ice with no trouble. He told me he had seven more in his car lot for sale if I was interested.

Look at the vehicle closely. It is made in Austria. Smaller but taller than a Humvee. It is naturally lifted, has no overhang and drives on a 4-wheel drive powertrain. The engine is quite small. It is only a four banger, gas miser. No luxury item on board. Door replacement can be made in anyone's garage. It has canvass top from the cab all the way to the end of the cargo box. Cab and box design are so basic.

Now take a brand-new Kia 4x4 powertrain. Manufacture a chassis similar to those made in Caloocan for rebuilt Isuzu Elf chop-chop trucks, and complete the truck with chop-chop narrow-type Isuzu Elf truck cab without doors and you have an all-terrain similar to the one pictured above. How much will it cost? Not much if LogCom, or whatever it is called now, will do the importaton and manufacturing. How about it?

[Adroth]

Any thoughts about how much a project like this would cost?

Is this something the AFP motorpool can put together, or would professional help be required?

[mamiyapis]

Can't see the picture sir. 

[saver111]

Armoured protected, stretch for more capacity, lifted and mine protected. Maybe something like this



Meet the Sable, the Casspirs younger brother. Yeah, I know it looks like a bank armoured truck the more that it can be copied right?

Our neighbour got something similar



http://sable.armour.co.za/

or how about those tractor trucks



converted to something like this





http://www.defense-update.com/products/m/mtvr-protection.htm

The marines did it with their M-35s. And with its monstrous size they won't say that it's just another second rate trying hard copy-cat.

[anak ni sarge]

Geez, this used to be in the Images Section. Anyway, I do appreciate that moderators like Adroth and Manokski took notice of this humble post about an equally modest and unassuming idea. It was an offshoot of my love for anything with engine and wheels and my soft spot for the AFP. Nothing fancy in this pitch, just basic rolling light utility transport. Something the PA or for that matter the whole AFP can consider given the state it is in and the tight budget it has to operate on.

With regard to the suggestions of heavily armored behemoths, I think we have already the gun trucks of the PMC to work on and improve upon. No need to duplicate the same thing on a different platform. Notice how massive the live differentials are in those trucks. Such differentials require gigantic engines. Even if they happen to be diesel powered, they may require turbo charging or supercharging, which will in turn burn diesel as fast as a V-10 Ford F-350 go through a gallon of regular gas or even worse. M-35 too small for you?  check out another thread on gun trucks here:

http://timawa.net/forum/index.php?topic=3872.0

[Adroth]

Geez, this used to be in the Images Section.

My bad. I didn't see the picture last night, so I thought this was just a regular post. Will put it back.

Apologies.

[mamiyapis]

I think that, if I am not mistaken sir, that is a Mercedes-Benz UNIMOG series truck. These things posses VERY impressive cross-country and hauling performance, are very modular with regards to configuration, and easily servicable due to the fact quite a lot of regular Mercedes automotive parts have been used in it. It's actually the basis for quite a few military utility vehicles and even some APCs, like the Australian-built Tenix Shorland S600 series of armored vehicles, which was offered to us way back in the late 90's during Ramos' time(I have a company brochure of this vehicle.. hehehe..).

If we're talking about a utility/troop transport, the UNIMOG should do fine. I've personally seen a few used in old logging camps. They're quite rare here in the Philippines, and whenever private companies come across second-hand ones, they usually snap it up immediately and take quite good care of them because of the same capabilities I mentioned.

However, with regards to other types 4x4 vehicles, I personally think we acquire LSV/FAV units from either Chenowth in the USA or ST Kinetics in Singapore for SpecOps/Marine units. It would give them extremely high mobility and the ability to maintain constant contact with enemy forces during COIN pursuit operations, not to mention bring mounted firepower that would otherwise be limited to heavy vehicles to the table. The Chenowth unit looks promising, especially with the company experienced in tested vehicle design for combat operations... But secondary capabilities being taken into account, things like utility and troop transport... I rather prefer the ST Kinetics LSV. Not only can it carry more personnel, it can also mount more armor should the need arise, and still remain chopper-liftable. 

[saver111]

With regard to the suggestions of heavily armored behemoths, I think we have already the gun trucks of the PMC to work on and improve upon. No need to duplicate the same thing on a different platform. Notice how massive the live differentials are in those trucks. Such differentials require gigantic engines. Even if they happen to be diesel powered, they may require turbo charging or supercharging, which will in turn burn diesel as fast as a V-10 Ford F-350 go through a gallon of regular gas or even worse. M-35 too small for you?  check out another thread on gun trucks here:

http://timawa.net/forum/index.php?topic=3872.0

Sir ANS, the reason I suggested those tractor trucks was because on the issue raised on the M-35 guntrucks. I think it involves the weight of the improvised armours. The wear and tear of the suspension system of the trucks are faster. With those tractor trucks, I believe it could sustain the added weight since it is designed to handle up to 40 footer containers and still move fast. Same with those dump trucks I see at night, full of wet sand coming from quarries. Still they move fast with those heavy cargoes with some even on delapidated conditions.

[frank]

Hello Gents,

Nice Unimog.

How much for those in Colorado for sale?

Some are here in California w/out Ambulance body.  Will ask Manoks to post images one of these days.

PMC used an armored car version w/ unimog chasis.  "Acerro" UR-416 for Test and Eval purposes in 70's .  Sen. Biazon had it in his Battalion when he was CO.  Their written report cited the vehicle suitable for Marines use even if it did not have amphibious capabilities.  Later version like that the Thai AF has can swim.

With proper design and selection of components armor projects can be done well.  Note Kalakiang prototypes have light truck axles.  Possibly why they have not gone into production.  They would be better off using components from likes of the 10 wheel + dump trucks that haul sand and lahar from Pampanga.

[frank]

http://www.majorsurplusnsurvival.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=MSS&Product_Code=083799&Category_Code=23



Your Price:$7,900.00

Mercedes Benz Military Transport, complete and ready to roll. These 4-wheel drive behemoths were built for the Swiss Military and we were able to land one. Fully equipped with full canvas removable cargo cover as well as cab cover (for those hot summer days), spare tire, tool boxes, tools, dual side-view mirrors, personnel benches, headlight stone guards, and more. Say "Auf Wiedersehn" to those puny little sport utility vehicles... 'cause when they see you coming they’re gonna run and hide! Built between 1961-69, most look like they have never seen rugged service. Finished in Olive Drab color, these crowd-gathering vehicles run on the long-lasting, time honored Mercedes 6 cylinder, 82 HP gas engine. All the electrics are 24 Volt. This baby has a top speed of 60 MPH, weighs 6,000 pounds and has a 32 gallon fuel tank. This military marvel measures 16' Long x 6½' Wide x 7' Tall, and has an 118" wheel base. With a 17" road clearance. Go anywhere you please!

[anak ni sarge]

Mukhang na-overtake na ito nung Mungo. Mas versatile and capable siya kaysa dito sa lumang Unimog. Basahin sa Light truck truck thread.

[anak ni sarge]

With those tractor trucks, I believe it could sustain the added weight since it is designed to handle up to 40 footer containers and still move fast.

A truck tractor doesn't carry the weight of its cargo. It merely pulls it. This the reason why a truck tractor with the same engine as cargo truck for example can travel with greater load capacity than a cargo truck. Try it yourself. Carry a 100 lbs. load and walk with it for 100 feet, then using a hand truck pull the same weight over the same distance. See the big difference.

Same with those dump trucks I see at night, full of wet sand coming from quarries. Still they move fast with those heavy cargoes with some even on delapidated conditions.

Those dump trucks are absolutely overloaded. And no, they don't move as fast as they should. You should see the dump trucks in North America. They have ten wheels plus extra four that hangs by the chassis when the truck is not loaded. Once it is loaded to its capacity, the four extra (two on each side) drops down to help spread the weight of the load. And they do travel fast, as fast as 80 to 90 miles per hour in the interstate depending on the driver. The fastest Isuzu dump truck I saw on the North Diversion Road was only travelling at 40 miles per hour and you could hear the engine already struggle.



Not being abrasive here. Just for everyone's information.

[saver111]

Got your point Sir ANS, but making this



does not end up carrying those overloaded weights hauled by those tractors and dump trucks right? Just enough for the armour, personnel and weapons load.

[anak ni sarge]

Medyo nalalayo na tayo pero ang sagot ko sa tanong mo eh, "It depends"

It all depends on how much armor protection you want to add to the truck. If you can package everything within the weight capacity of the truck then well and good but as mblt6 related on PMC's experience with adding armor to the M-35, the end product will more than likely exceed the gross vehicle weight the truck was designed for because in essence what the AFP is doing is grab what's in the shelf and slap what's available. Your truck example was more than likely designed from the ground up in the truck factory R&D. The cab may have been adopted from a commercial fleet line but that's the end of the similarity. The chassis may have been strengthened, the suspension system must be more sturdy and the the powertrain may have been protected from exploding land mine from underneath. The engine I guarantee you is turbocharged if not supercharged. Compare that with the PMC's conversion of existing M-35 trucks which entails welding armor plates to the cargo box while disregarding improvement to the stock suspension system and powertrain. The conversion renders the truck more apt to frequent maintenance and repair. Additionally, as mblt6 admitted, the engine groans at the added weight of the armor.

Now you may have seen an International Harvester or Sterling truck that looked like your example in the Philippines but remember the truck may not be as powerful as the M-35 or your example depending on the displacement of the engine and its cargo rating. Trucks are like cars, they may look alike but the engines may be different. For example a Ford F-250 and F-350, the body styles are similar but the engine and cargo ratings are different. Or say a Corolla 1.3 and a Corolla 1.8. So goes with trucks. Besides if we are to go with bigger trucks to convert than the M-35 why not just go for the M-923 military truck instead as I have proposed in the Gun truck thread:

 http://timawa.net/forum/index.php?topic=3872.0

[saver111]

Why is it everytime I see this photo it reminds me of something...



Yeah, this one



We should have pursued this technology



Sorry guys... just dreaming.  But...hmmmm