Philippine Marine Corps M3 SpecOps Generation 2

[opus]

http://www.timawa.net/m3/m3gen2.htm

[israeli]

hey Opus!

hmmmmmmm... Grease Guns... how long have they been in the PMC inventory? aren't these guns from the 1950's-1960's? were these Grease Guns given upgrades prior to their re-issuance to our troops?

[Manokski]

hey Opus!

hmmmmmmm... Grease Guns... how long have they been in the PMC inventory? aren't these guns from the 1950's-1960's? were these Grease Guns given upgrades prior to their re-issuance to our troops?

Israeli, hindi ka ba nag-babasa?

[opus]

Production of M3s started and ended in World War 2.  All reserve stocks in the AFP's inventory are from that era.

The original M3 information page is here:

http://www.timawa.net/m3/m3.htm

[gary1910]

Wow, others are retiring 70s weapons, you guys still using those from WW2!!!!

BTW what the calibre, and who is still making them?

[Manokski]

Wow, others are retiring 70s weapons, you guys still using those from WW2!!!!

BTW what the calibre, and who is still making them?

What's wrong with that?  The M2 .50 Cal Browning dates back from WW1 (yes One!) and it's still in use.  Barrel wise, the M3s have hardly been used so these guns are almost new.  Old design, but new.  If it does the job, why replace it?

[troung]

"Wow, others are retiring 70s weapons, you guys still using those from WW2!!!!"

They cost a lot less then a new build 45 caliber SMG. There are better ways to spend money then to try and look cool. Delta used M-3s in the late 1970s and early 1980s. It works, hits hard and comes very cheap, cannot beat that.  

"BTW what the calibre, and who is still making them?"

45 caliber and they are refurbs.

[The Reaper]

Still looks good and effective to me. Nice additions/upgrades too.

[israeli]

Israeli, hindi ka ba nag-babasa?

sorry. i missed that one. i was already sleepy when i posted that question... tao lang.    

however, how many Grease Guns were in the PMC inventory? out that those guns, how many of them were upgraded and re-issued back into the PMC?

[predator]

When it hit you,  you'll know the difference of it  with other submachine gun ... he he he  50 cal.

[opus]

One hit from a .45 pistol will drop a charging enemy while two or three from a 9mm are needed.  It's not hard to imagine what multiple hits of .45 cal rounds in rapid succession will do.

[gary1910]

If it is use for Spec-ops then it is certainly not suitable, for anti-terrorist ops in building or security work still ok.

Reasons :
1) Effective range only 50m, any modern SMG with abt same length & weight is at least a 100m effective range.

For example the standard UZI has a effective range of 200m.

Those with such low effective range are only use for close combat, anti-terror or police operations.

2)Only fire in full auto mode, that it is no good for Spec-ops becos with abt ten squeeze of trigger, you need to change the 30rds mag.

Full auto mode is only useful for close quarter fighting or suppressive fire.
Thus the soldiers need more mags as well as frequent changing of mags during a contact in the field.

Modern SMG comes in several mode of fire, and in real combat , one do not uses full auto mode during battle except for close quarter fighting.

One only see full auto firing in Hollywood.

[opus]

If it is use for Spec-ops then it is certainly not suitable, for anti-terrorist ops in building or security work still ok.

Reasons :
1) Effective range only 50m, any modern SMG with abt same length & weight is at least a 100m effective range.

For example the standard UZI has a effective range of 200m.

Those with such low effective range are only use for close combat, anti-terror or police operations.

2)Only fire in full auto mode, that it is no good for Spec-ops becos with abt ten squeeze of trigger, you need to change the 30rds mag.

Full auto mode is only useful for close quarter fighting or suppressive fire.
Thus the soldiers need more mags as well as frequent changing of mags during a contact in the field.

Modern SMG comes in several mode of fire, and in real combat , one do not uses full auto mode during battle except for close quarter fighting.

One only see full auto firing in Hollywood.

How many operations have you seen where a soldier fires an Uzi in single-shot mode?  Probably none.  Being an open-bolt weapon, the movement of the bolt spoils the accuracy of the first shot.  So if you only fire single shots, your aim is spoiled in all of them.  It is worth noting that the Grease Gun is also an open bolt weapon, but its slow rate of fire allows single shots to be squeezed, and for the aim in automatic fire to be corrected before wasting rounds.  An MP5 fires from a closed-bolt but uses 9mm rounds (two or three shots needed to be sure you've put down your target) and is EXPENSIVE.  Ask the guys in the field if they would like to have five H&K MP5s or 200 M3 Grease Guns and they'll tell you they'd rather have the Grease Guns.

The Floro Mk9 and the Government Arsenal MP9 both fire from a closed bolt but use 9mm rounds like the MP5, and at around P30,000 each are cheaper than the MP5 but are still much more expensive than the M3.

As far as the merits of the .45 round are concerned, H&K has a new pistol and a new submachine gun out:  the H&K SOCOM and the UMP, respectively.  Both are in .45 caliber.

If you want to fire your submachine gun only in single-shot mode, save government money and use your pistol instead.

[bustero]

Interesting developoment.  It's good to see the AFP thinking out of the box and looking at solutions instead of complaining about the problem (no money!).  While this is not optimal am all for it.

[gary1910]

How many operations have you seen where a soldier fires an Uzi in single-shot mode?  Probably none.  Being an open-bolt weapon, the movement of the bolt spoils the accuracy of the first shot.  So if you only fire single shots, your aim is spoiled in all of them.  It is worth noting that the Grease Gun is also an open bolt weapon, but its slow rate of fire allows single shots to be squeezed, and for the aim in automatic fire to be corrected before wasting rounds.  An MP5 fires from a closed-bolt but uses 9mm rounds (two or three shots needed to be sure you've put down your target) and is EXPENSIVE.  Ask the guys in the field if they would like to have five H&K MP5s or 200 M3 Grease Guns and they'll tell you they'd rather have the Grease Guns.

The Floro Mk9 and the Government Arsenal MP9 both fire from a closed bolt but use 9mm rounds like the MP5, and at around P30,000 each are cheaper than the MP5 but are still much more expensive than the M3.

As far as the merits of the .45 round are concerned, H&K has a new pistol and a new submachine gun out:  the H&K SOCOM and the UMP, respectively.  Both are in .45 caliber.

If you want to fire your submachine gun only in single-shot mode, save government money and use your pistol instead.

Not very sure what u are talking abt.
I have fired M-16, SAR-80 & SAR21.
Also with LMG, LAW , M203 ,GPMG etc

The first is usually the most accurate, the subsequent rounds will be affected by the recoil of the first round.

I have fired full auto with my M-16s and see that the muzzle keep on going up, by 2~3 round it is totally out.

That is why ppl come out wif 3 round burst.

To zero a full auto LMG, only one round was loaded and fired, this is repeated 3 times , so that a good MPI is achieved thus able to accurately zero a LMG.

In a typical infantry squad/section, the full auto mode LMG will provide the suppressive fire, those using M-16s will only fire in semi auto mode.

M-16s infantry soldiers will carry abt 8~9 mag , i.e. 240~270 rounds , which is only good for 1.5 contact firing semi auto.

To fire in full auto all the time, he need to carry more mag.

LMG gunner will carry abt 500~600 rounds cos they firing in auto mode all the time.