For Manoks: Layang conversion

[Adroth]

Mr. M,

Did you see this in the other forum:

http://s3.invisionfree.com/Defense_Philippines/index.php?showtopic=672

Project Layang was the conversion of piston engined SF-260MP/WP into turboprop configuration. This did not happen. Instead, the turboprop SF-2670TP was modified for attack duties. The piston engined version was returned to flying training duties, augmented by leased ex-Rhodesian Air Force SF-260s.

That should clarify everything.

This seems to contradict what you wrote here:

http://home.comcast.net/~manokski/sf260.htm

Project Layang".  Some 18 SF.260MP/WPs were originally to be upgraded to the SF.260TP standard under "Project Layang", with the first being delivered in 1996. However, it seems that the project eventually involved the conversion of existing SF.260TPs from training to attack versions only and that some seven or so were converted by 2002, with the first two examples being put into service with 15th Strike Wing in Apr 2001.

Were the combat conversions actually part of Project Layang?

[lakan]

I thought when I first read that post from the other forum that Comrade Manokski might have really been misinformed about certain things going on at PAF and even noted your reply there suggesting that the guy might want to pass on his information to Manoks but reading the post here again and comparing it with Manok's,  I now find no contradiction but rather a restatement of the same fact. What might have thrown you off was the use perhaps of the codename: "Project Layang". Was the codename used also in the conversion of the turboprops trainers for COIN operation when its original purpose was to convert the piston engine examples to turboprop?

[Manolet/Manokski]

Lakan pretty much hit the nail on the head.  My phrasing could have been better.  My apologies for the confusion.

The original plan for the Layang Project was to convert existing piston engined SF260s to turbine power with the first deliveries to have taken place in 1996.  This never happened.

What did happen was a conversion of existing SF260TPs to carry weapons which incidentally were not delivered with any weapons delivery capability at all.  This it turns out took on the name of the original project and probably some of the funding as well.  

What eventaully became Probject Layang now involves the installation of hardpoints on the wings (with the assistance of SIA Marchetti), addition of weapons sights, the addition of new radios and provision for plug in GPS equipment like the mods done to the PAF OV-10s (these last points are unconfirmed though it would make sense to facilitate communication with ground units and find targets accurately).

Hope that clears it up.

[Adroth]

What might have thrown you off was the use perhaps of the codename: "Project Layang". Was the codename used also in the conversion of the turboprops trainers for COIN operation when its original purpose was to convert the piston engine examples to turboprop?

Yup, that's what I was hoping to clarify. So its a case of same project name, different implementation.

[Cort]

it seems that there were 2 Layang prototypes that reached completion as the Manila Bulletin reports. what were they?

Manila Bulletin
June 16, 1998
"Airforce Launches 2nd Military Aircraft Prototype"

Villamor Airbase- PAF officials formally launched yesterday "Layang II"- 2nd prototype of a locally assembled military aircraft at simple rites at Airforce Research and Development Center. Lt. Gen. William Hotchkiss III described Layang II as an improved version of Layang I. Layang II is a low wing monoplane with SF260W airframe with new engine mount, propeller, engine cowling and rudder trim tab. The Layang I was conceived in 1982 and made its maiden flight June 21, 1996.-Ronnie De Guzman.

[Cort]

it appears from the old AFP publication, Ang Tala, that projects where piston engine aircraft are converted to turboprops occurred even before the Layang projects. Ang Tala, May 7, 1975 issue which features PAF self-reliance development group (SRDG) projects, cites conversion to turbo-prop of the ff aircrafts: HU-16A, T-34, C47, Cessna 310 and a WW2 era P51 fighter (for COIN operations). It also cited modifications of the HU-16A and old H-34 helicopter for COIN operations. The HU-16A's were fitted weapons hardpoints and given coastal interdiction and support missions vs. MNLF fighters while the H-34 were fitted with bomb racks and rocket pods for gunship role. It also featured a sleek "bongbong" glider (which looks similar to that mini-jet in the Bond film "Octopussy") and also cited are projects like conversion/modification of a C47 to a hospital aircraft/gunship and conversion of a F86D jet to a twin engined, 6 sitter executive / laison jet.

[Adroth]

Interesting new details

4. the padc had a proj before the LAYANG a SF260M converted to a tp using a nomad engine, problem was the nomad engine was not designed for aerobatics

5.the nomad sf260tp the md520 uses the same base engine of an allison 250c20

 G.A.R. the layang can be seen at the PAF museum hehehe. development stopped as per request of SAIA marchetti. or else we were gonna be sued hehehe same thing with the hummingbird.